This is the BiggerPockets podcast show 318.
Collin: I told my wife, ‘Hey, honey. This weekend, we are going to hand write 191 letters and stuff them and send them out to these owners.’ I did that, sent those letters out and I was able to get six deals off of those letters.’
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Brandon: What is going on everyone? This is Brandon Turner, host of the BiggerPockets podcast. Here with my co-host, the man of the hour, the man of the year, David Greene. What is up, buddy?
David: Thank you, thank you, Brandon. I appreciate that. I am doing wonderful. I am actually looking to hire new intern for the David Greene team so I have been going over resumes and getting people to email me and then trying to systematize everything that we are doing. We have got someone who is running my rental portfolio. I am looking to step up my flip business and looking for an analyst to help with multifamily stuff. I am stepping up my game in 2019 and looking to bring people in to teach. How is things over there on your end?
Brandon: Not too bad. Speaking of hiring, I was thinking the other day, I was talking to some buddies of mine, we basically had this conversation about at the end of the day like one of the most important skills a person could have and all of like real estate or business or in anything really that you want to grow larger than yourself. Like knowing how to hire a good employee, like bringing good team members, like finding talent is the most important skill you can really have. Because at the end of the day, if you want to grow bigger than yourself, you have to find talent and talent is hard to find. Anyway, in that conversation one of the guys asked me and they are like, ‘Did you ever like read a book on hiring? I am like, no. I have read a million books on real estate but I have never read one on hiring. Why not?
Anyway, I just read one called ‘Who’ and it was pretty good about. Like here is a system for hiring. Weird like we have a problem and there is a bit just some guys got to figure it out, some guys got to figure it out. Anyway, I am big on hiring but actually it leads to today’s Quick Tip. I mentioned this last week, I will say it again this week. BiggerPockets is hiring for a couple of different roles in the marketing team. Last time I talked about retention, a person that is going to be working on pro retention which is like working with our pro members to deliver value.
We are also hiring a pro or BIggerPockets Plus Pro sales, marketing consultant person, whatever. I do not know if there is official role title yet for it. Anyway, go to BiggerPockets.com/jobs if you are in Denver or willing to move to Denver and you want to work very closely with the marketing team, including myself because I am the head of the BiggerPockets Pro Team. Anyway, if that is you, go to biggerpockets.com/jobs and do what it says.
David: Equal opportunity to work in what you love, right?
Brandon: Yes, very very cool and it is really fun. BiggerPockets is a cool place. Their office in Denver is amazing, like it is amazing. It is probably the coolest office I have ever seen anywhere ever. Other than that, let us hear from today’s show sponsor.
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Brandon: Alright. Big thanks for our sponsors as always. Now, it is time to get to today’s show. Today’s show is a ton of fun. We are interviewing a guy named Collin Schwartz. Collin has an amazing story. I mean two years ago he was listening to the BiggerPockets podcast just like you are listening to right now, right? He went to learn stuff from the podcast and from others and started meeting people, networking, reading. Two years later now, he has over a hundred units and including he bought like six of like on his first DirectMail campaign. You are going to be blown away by his numbers, very very cool story.
He talks a lot about bad tax, all about what it takes to be really successful, how we ran out of money around the 20 unit mark and how he got through that. As well as a deal flow property management and like so much more. You all are going to love this stuff, just tons of gold in here. Take some notes, you are going to love it. Without further ado, let us get to today’s show with Collin Schwartz. Welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. Collin, how are you doing?
Collin: Great. How are you, buddy?
Brandon: Man, I am doing good. This is going to be fun talking about your story, real estate, all that good stuff. Why do not we start at the beginning. How did you get into real estate?
Collin: Yes, just kind of some background on me. I am 34 years old, living in Omaha, Nebraska. Married, got two young kids. The moment that I knew I was going to be a real estate investor was kind of one of those pivotal moments and like lots of people, I picked up the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad. This was January 1st, 2017. I remember exactly where I was. Last day of vacation, kind of dreading going back to my cubicle and I picked that book up and immediately I had this mind shift. I finished the book within two days and I knew that I had to start making a change. Otherwise, I was going to be that individual at 64 years old staring at his Vanguard account, praying that the market does not crash and that I can retire next year. It really hit me like a ton of bricks. My wife was pregnant with her second child so I knew my 10 days of vacation off a year. Was not going to cut it anymore.
Collin: Anyways, started educating, started reading pretty much as much as possible, Millionaire Real Estate Investor, all those types of books. When you start reading those kind of some of the big takeaways are to network to go out, meet people. I started doing that, started reaching out to numerous agents, these agents turned me out to BiggerPockets which then occupied my mornings. Every single morning with a professor Turner and Professor Dorkin on my drive to the gym.
Brandon: First and only time I think anyone referred to me as professor.
Collin: No, it is great. No, but seriously, it had a tremendous impact on me listening to all these stories. But anyways, going through it, I realized I had some finances. I had some money saved away so that I would actually be able to invest and get better returns in the stock market but the challenges is finding a property that is going to be worth anything. I think a lot of people realize, you go on Zillow, you go on Loopnet and the numbers usually are not reflective of actuals. They are the pro formas or anything like that. I did, I guess, what…
Brandon: I heard the other day, pro forma is Latin for lie.
Collin: That that might be a true. But anyways, I guess I did what any sane person does. I pulled a list from list source and I told my wife, ‘Hey, honey. This weekend we were going to handwrite 191 letters and stuff them and send them out to these owners.’ Yes, I did that. This was about a month later after reading those books and I am kind of one of those ready, fire, aim people where I was not possibly being patient enough but I was not getting the results from agents. Some of them would laugh at me, some of them are like yes, everybody is looking for a nice 10 cap property, 15 to 20% cash on cash returns. Anyways, sent those letters out and I was able to get six deals off of those letters.
Brandon: No way.
Collin: Yes, yes. Really, that was one of the biggest catalyst for both confidence but yes, just to actually get me started in investing. That is kind of where my journey began. Since then, started a meet up group, a networking group. Actually, Mindy has been out to one of them as well when she was down for the Berkshire event, Mindy Jensen. Yes, that is kind of how it started.
Brandon: Alright. I want to dig in on the six deals. I mean I know people who have sent thousands of letters and not get a deal. I mean, I sent… A couple years ago, I was telling the story of how I built my daughter’s fourplex. I sent out 300 letters and got back like 40 phone calls, got one deal. 191 letters and six deals, what did you do right or what did you do wrong?
Collin: That is funny. I get that question a lot. What is in the letter? I would be happy to go over and tell everybody what it is. It is no real secret sauce. I found some properties in specific areas that I liked. They need to be located next to my work so that I could go service them on my lunch break, before work, after work. I was running errands over my lunch breaks, that was kind of what I had to do. But anyways, I identified the certain zip codes. I identified that the individuals had owned the property for more than five years. That would hopefully increase the likelihood of them wanting to sell and then I filtered down to multifamily. From there, I actually… What I wanted to do was I know a lot of people do sendoff letters, I know a lot of people send postcards. I know every single postcard I get, I throw in the trash.
Every piece of junk mail I get, I throw in the trash. I figured if I am actually handwriting, the sender’s address, I actually put my real home address on there. I figured I am kind of intersecting myself into these people’s lives and saying, ‘Hey, I know you. I want this, I want to buy it.’ Some people take a lot of offense to that which is okay but I know anybody that has done DirectMail has got kind of those hate calls, ‘Why are you sending me this?’ But I just put in kind of a sincere saying, ‘Hey, I am an investor. I am looking to purchase your property. I am not a real estate agent. I did not put anything about being able to buy in cash because that was not my intent. My intent was to go through bank financing and I think that really set the conversation up a little bit better than if I would have just done the typical postcard route.
Brandon: Yes. I feel like… I mean there is a lot of people who are just doing the, I do not know what you call it, like the shotgun approach. You just like blast out hundreds and hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of letters and that obviously works. We have had people on the show before who are doing that. Well, you took a much different approach. He said, ‘How can I send a smaller amount of letters and really just get these to agree. Like how do I really make myself a real person, stand out, appear different. A five years owned multifamily, you were looking at multifamily straight off the bat, right?
Collin: Straight off the bat. I think listening to your podcast and everything, I know lots of individuals would think more units, more risk. In my mindset, more units, less risk. You can have 10 units, one vacant versus the single family home route where if you have one vacant, you are basically paying the mortgage that month.
Brandon: Yes, okay. That makes sense. Alright, sent these letters, what kind of multifamily were they? Single, duplexes, triplexes, or larger?
Collin: They were primarily duplexes, fourplexes. I was able to get a sevenplex out of it. But yes, basically anything that I could see that had value add opportunity, rents way too low and that I knew that I could go in and maybe make some changes and increase those rents.
Brandon: Wow, that is awesome. Okay. A lot of people ask this question, well, what if I make multiple offers and get more than one deal accepted? Now, I am screwed because now I got two good options, right? You had six options out of that first deal, how did you put that together?
Collin: Ready, fire, aim, I guess. I ended up meeting a gentleman through networking. He had owned and managed 50 units. I started talking with him. He really helped guide me through the process and said, hey, if you find these things and their deals, we are going to figure them out. Yes, I did have… The process to get those six deals probably took five months or so, back and forth with some of them. But three of them were immediately. I just realized that they were good opportunities and I guess my mind was fully into this, that this is what I wanted to do, that that is what I had to do. But yes, he really helped guide me through. I could call him, I probably sent him, I do not know, 5,000 text messages in the first two months asking every single question about being a landlord, the type of lease to use, what do you think of these people? What do you think of this contractors, all those recommendations. But yes, I guess it, it never really occurred to me.
I mean I definitely got overwhelmed and probably still do as I am constantly getting properties under contract. Always wonder how am I going to make this one work especially when you are closing on one. But what I have realized, if the property really is a deal, that there is usually a way to figure it out. Of those six deals, I actually did wholesale one and flip another. That was able to bring in some additional income to kind of offset what might’ve been the additional responsibilities for me because I was, and still am, managing the properties.
Brandon: Okay. Yes, that makes sense. Alright, let us talk about financing these properties and I know we will move on to that to your portfolio but it is just a cool story, these first six. When you got that, did you just go run to a bank right away when they started coming in and you started getting these deals accepted it or how did you work financing?
Collin: The first deal did not close until about May, going through due diligence back and forth and everything. One of the first things I did after the education was realized what the finances, what is my finances? What is my gunpowder, what can I actually do? I reached out to four different banks, two of them being local, one of which I banked with and one just kind of big name bank. I wanted to get the gambit of what I can actually do. Now, I actually had the pre-approvals, I was ready to go with those. Yes, that that was kind of… It was a lot of preparation on the front end because I think, I could not go and buy a $5 million property at that time, there is no finances for that. I wanted to know actually what I could buy with the bank’s risk tolerance was, what would they would think of a person who is never invested in real estate before, whose family does not invest in real estate, who sits in a cubicle and doing IT work, what they were comfortable giving me and what types of terms.
Brandon: Okay. I think that is smart. You know there is that famous quote from I think it was Abe Lincoln though. Everything is subscribed to a blink of an internet, right? But like it basically it says if I had six hours to chop down a tree, I would spend the first four sharpening my ax, right? It is about preparation, right? I think that is so key. It is like getting prepared before you get into real estate. Like getting the pre-approval lined up, getting your financing kind of figured out, getting the education front loaded. But on the other side of that equation is people who just prepare all day long and they spend nine hours sharpening an ax and then realize the tree is still standing. Like how do you balance between the two and what would you tell a newbie listening to the about getting prepared versus being too prepared?
Collin: You know what is funny is I am sitting down and I have been doing scrambling over taxes and a meeting with my bookkeeper and everything and looking back I probably would have changed a hundred different things. Just setting up of everything. You do not realize what scale you are going to go to, you do not realize any of that. But what I can say is that if you put yourself out there and you actually do go through the deal and you have the mindset that you want to do this, you will be able to figure it out. You are just going to have to continue to reach out to people but putting yourself in those uncomfortable positions, you will typically be able to find your way out. Now, you are going to make mistakes.
Obviously, you could prepare for two years but if I had sat there and I mean I think about it, it is about two years since I started, if I had prepared this whole time and got everything perfect by structures, everything like that, I might have lost the desire to do it and might not have done it. I really think you have to go ahead, you have to do it. It is okay to prepare but instead of going out talking to the attorney, getting your LLC, setting up your software, making sure that you have all these different every single piece in place, it is really important just to get out there and have some fundamentals and be willing to put the extra effort in.
David: Well, that is how growth happens. We always, I would not say we always, but oftentimes we want everything to be all our ducks lined up in a row before we take the first step. But the reality is things are built in phases. It is kind of messy the way it goes. You often will not know who your contractor is going to be until you have got a couple of deals to look at. You have to go through bids and then the contractor you first used will not be the guy you ended up with. It is not until you do a couple of deals then you get credibility and you start a meet up and now you meet people at the meet up to have better contractors and the whole thing builds that way. You send out some mailers, you got some houses under contract, and you started this meet up. Can you tell us, Collin, where you are you at right now? How many units do you own?
Collin: I have a 110 units.
David: Okay. That is a lot. In two years, how many properties is that spread out over?
Collin: Yes, in two years. It is about 20 properties. I do not own them all myself. Typically, it is a 50/50 partnership. About I think 14, I just closed on two duplexes on Friday, 14 of the units I own solely, but the rest of them are in partnerships, 50/50 partnerships.
David: Now, this is an odd question but are you happy with owning 110 units or do you feel like you would have done it differently if you could go back and do it again?
Collin: Like if I would have bought better performing or if I would have…
David: Yes, maybe better performing units or different kinds of units. Like are you happy with having a whole lot of houses or do you feel like that was an inefficient way to do it? Just for the people who are like, wow, I want to go do that, do you think that is the best way to do it?
Collin: For me, it was. The reason being is I really wanted to get out of my job. My job was not terrible by any means. It was a good job, everybody would look on it. It paid well, it was a good job. But for me to get out, I needed to supplement my income and the way in which I have done that is become the property manager for these properties, take a property management fee in which I partner with. That is allowed my income to grow to that level. To say I would have done it differently, I really do not think so. I think I am pretty happy with how I have done it.
David: What about how did you start finding properties after the DirectMail campaign? Has it been word of mouth through the networking stuff you talked about?
Collin: It absolutely has. The next property, one of my partners he actually brought it to me. It was an 11 unit. Another partner brought me a 24 unit which we partnered on. Really, I have had lots of wholesalers reach out to me. It is kind of that exponential curve where at first you are literally grinding, grinding, grinding, and you do not think you are going to get any deals. Nobody is giving you the time of day, you really have no credibility. Once you start doing those deals, the deals do find you.
Brandon: Yes, I love that. A lot of people do struggle. You learn little things along the way too. Like I mean that you were not doing in the beginning. When you thought you were hustling really, really hard but in the beginning you are usually hustling in stuff that probably does not matter, right? Like man, I have been spending 18 hours a day designing this business card and I am not getting…
Brandon: My website look so good but I am not getting any deals. Alright, so you get out there, you started working at it. I mean over a hundred units in two years. It is amazing and you said you did it through partnerships. You said that almost like you are, I do not want to call it apologizing, but you were like, oh well it is not all, it is partnership, right? But that is amazing. Like you enabled other people now to invest in real estate as well. You are working with other people, you are helping other people build wealth at the same time. I want to talk about partnerships because I am a huge huge fan of partnerships, right? I talk about them a lot. I mean let us talk about how do you typically structure a partnership? What does that look like? What are they bringing? What are you bringing and does that change over time or…
Collin: Yes. The partnership is really just a 50/50 structure. We share in all the cashflow, everything, it is very much equal partnerships. I do the management yet we are both responsible for overseeing the property, getting the property too close, whether setting up insurance, whether we are meeting with vendors, whether we are just challenging each other to look at the property. My partners, we talk all the time and like well why is this expense this? Or maybe we should change our snow removal company, maybe we should use this lawn care company, maybe we should institute this RUBS program. Really, it is a partnership. The individuals I am partnered with, they are working a full time job, at least two of them are, but they are very much a 100% vested and invested and wanting to real estate investors full time.
David: Can you define RUBS for us?
Collin: Rent Utility Bill… Basically when a landlord is paying for water, gas, and sewer is a typical one. He can take that total amount of the amount that I pay and he bills that back to the tenants. Basically, he is reducing…
David: It is like using an algorithm to figure out who pays how much as opposed to putting in a meter where you just get a number basically.
Collin: Exactly, exactly. It is usually done in a arrears so you spend $2,000 a month on water, gas, sewer. The next month you bill back the 20 units a 100 bucks each.
Collin: That is also a really good way for individuals. If they are underwriting properties and they are like, well, I cannot increase the rents, everything is kind of stagnant. Look at what the landlord is paying for. If the landlord is paying, and lots of these older landlords are just paying for water, gas, and sewer just because that is the way they have always done it, they do not know these systems exist but that that can significantly increase your income. That can be the value add right there.
Brandon: Yes. Typically, when I look at a rental property there, there are actually very few things you can control. I mean like you cannot really control the taxes, they are what they are, I mean before you buy it of course. But once you buy it, there is not a lot you can do except for utilities. Like they are often the largest lever and vacancy. If you could fix those two things, typically, I mean you are not going to jack the rent up 500 a month and hope that people will pay it. They just will not, it is market dependent. But yes, utilities can be a great way. But you cannot always RUBS, right, and shift the payment? First of all, what area are you buying in? You probably said that earlier, but if not, what area are you buying in and then like have you always been able to do that?
Collin: Omaha, Nebraska.
Collin: Typically, the units that I buy, the meters are already split out but for example, this one, one of our most recent purchases, the 24 unit. That was really where the value add came. We were able to increase their rents 5% or 6% or 7% but to be able to reduce our expenses by $1,500 a month and bill those back to the tenants, that was huge. We actually used a company and what they do is they will send off the invoices and people can just mail in their checks or pay online.
Brandon: That is cool. Do you know what they are called at the top of your head?
Collin: Invoice America.
Brandon: Okay. We will give them a shout out. That is cool. Alright, so that is awesome. Again, yes, great way to increase your income by reducing expenses that way.
Hey, I want to take a quick break from today’s podcast episode to invite you to this week’s Webinar which is how to evaluate an offer on rental properties. Look, everyone knows rental properties can add to your net worth and provide consistent cashflow, but how do you ensure that property, that portfolio is filled with solid properties that actually gets you closer to your goal? Well, that is what we are talking about it. On this free Webinar, I am going to be walking you through the exact step by step process to evaluate one of the webinars on evaluation, running the numbers, that even if you are brand new can use and then how to offer. I am going to go through seven sneaky tricks that I use to get more of my offers accepted. Again, it is going to be awesome. Make sure you show up, but you got to register for it by going to BiggerPockets.com/eowebinar. That is eo, like evaluate offer, eowebinar. I will see you there.
Brandon: I want to go back real quick to the partnership thing. I am curious, are you guys each equally putting in like both partners with the money or they just doing the money and you are doing other parts or how do you break that out?
Collin: I guess that varies on the front end. Not necessarily that there has been some deals where I have shown up with $0 but we do a promissory note and I pay that money back or at the refinance.
Brandon: Interesting, okay.
Collin: Or, I mean, but typically the amount of equity invested is equal. There are some instances that really helped me because I basically ran out of money at maybe the 15 or 20 unit mark.
Collin: Capital goes really quick in this business. I would find these additional off market properties and I would add acquisition fees. At closing, if I am acting as I do not want to say the realtor, but if I am acting as the agent between myself, my partner and the seller, that I would throw in a 2% or 3% acquisition fee and that would help me finance the properties as well.
Brandon: That is correct, that is cool. I mean I hear that with indicators from time… I mean all the time, right? If you will syndicate a 200 unit apartment complex, there is a 1% to 2% to 3% fee on there almost always. I mean I do not think I have ever seen a deal that did not have that, right? Why not if that is what you work with your partner and that is part of your value you are bringing to the table, why not do it? I think that is an awesome idea.
Collin: Yes. It would almost be similar to what I did recently rather than wholesaling the property, the individual one to get in, we partnered on it. But at closing, I still took a $5,000 assignment fee for that, for running the deal, working with it for six to seven months, kind of putting all the pieces together, working with the banks and all that.
Brandon: Cool. How do you find your partners?
Collin: It is really networking and we have to build. Partners, it is definitely a lot like a relationship. You want to make sure that you guys are on the same wavelengths, but that you also bring strengths to each other. Typically, I mean just sharing things in common. One of whom I met actually through BiggerPockets. We were competing, we kept competing on deals together, we kept showing up at showings together and we kept competing and we had talked for probably a year before that and we are just like how about we just think about partnering and sit down and really figure this out. Yes, that is kind of just networking.
Brandon: That is actually fascinating. The idea of like find your biggest competitor like in your area. Find somebody who is just doing a really good job and partner with them because two people should be able to, if they are both good, two people should be able to do the work of 10 if there was not.
Collin: Yes. I could just tell, for instance, he was just a hustler. He was out there. I mean, we were on phone conversations. I mean we would spend hours on the phone just talking about real estate and we just kept showing up at these deals together, we kept talking about these other deals and finally we were just like what are we doing here? He is working his full time job, I am doing the management, we both got along really well. We both had some opposing but very good strengths and very open with each other. We were like let us just partner on one of these and see how it goes and yes, it has been great.
David: It is funny you say that because I am in a very similar situation with another realtor, a good friend of mine. He sells an insane amount of houses. He is really really good at being a realtor. He has incredible systems in place, pretty much all the things that me as a guy two years in is trying to build, right? Eventually, I will get that foundation laid and like any skyscraper, when there is a foundation laid, you shoot up really fast, right? But he does not want to shoot up, he does not want to have to like throw gas on the fire and recruit new agents and train people and get new leads coming in. He just works his old referral business that he has had and he is got this really good system in place that he does not want to go faster. I want to go faster but I do not have a system in place that can support that speed. Like my car would fall apart on the track. We are talking about the exact same thing.
It is so funny you say that, rather than seeing him as competition, we are fighting over the same listings. It is if we put this together and build this super team, it gives every other realtor a place to go where they are going to get better training and systems and they can succeed better and you have turned an enemy into a friend. I am sure there is some Chinese proverb that says that really cool but I am not funny right now but that is what you want to do. One of the things that he likes about me, and this is a good segue, is that I host these meetups in the bay area where I teach people how to invest in real estate. It is all free, I get quite a big following, probably like 120 people that come.
I am starting to do one a week in different locations throughout the bay. These meetups are growing really quickly and it gives people a chance to meet me. It gives me a chance to get to know people. It is good for business and it is good for them. I know you are doing the same thing, can you tell us for the people who are listening that either want to go to a meetup or maybe want to start a meetup, what is some things they should know about how to do it and how has that positively impacted your investing business?
Collin: Yes, when people think of meetups, I think this also goes to how people can hesitate to start because they think they need to have all the pieces in place. How I started the meetup is I was on this Facebook Group and I saw people kept talking about real estate investing. Well, at the time I was rehabbing a fourplex so I just posted on the group, ‘Guys, I am going to be at this fourplex Thursday night, want to bring a six pack and come check it out?’ Twelve people showed up, it was a good turnout. From there, we did it at a buddy’s house who just rehabbed the house. From there, it really does not have to be a super formal thing, just showing, just providing some value and I do not know, having something interesting really really helps.
From there, we actually started doing it at a bar. We do have meetups in town. They are more of the High School Gymnasium PowerPoint type meetups. I wanted a place where I could go out on a Wednesday night and go have a beer and talk real estate with a bunch of guys, bunch of guys and gals. Yes, I really designed it kind of around what I wanted and it turned out that a lot of other people wanted that as well.
Brandon: That is cool. I am a huge proponent of everyone who listens to the show notes of these meetups, right? We do them out here in Maui, I did one in Washington, David has got his almost every week now, right? Like getting… Sometimes, it can be a professional PowerPoint type of thing if that is the purpose of the meetup and sometimes like it is just get together for drinks on the beach or whatever. Like I mean it is getting together networking. Like if you want to get in shape, if you want to be fit, go hang around with a bunch of really in shape fit people and you will just naturally become more like them.
If you want to be a good real estate investor, get a round a bunch of really good real estate investors or others who are passionate about it and you are naturally going to find yourself climbing there as well. Of course, we have a place, everyone listen to this, if you have not checked it out yet, biggerpockets.com/events. You can actually create an event and host. Find a bar in your area, a beach or a park or a restaurant or whatever. Go to Red Robin, gets some good burgers and just like, ‘Hey, I am going to be here at this time,’ or go to one of your properties like you did. That is cool. I love when meetups do that, meet at properties, because you get to talk to people and it is a good way to potentially find partners, to find lenders, to find people to work with the share contract information. There is so much good about meetups. Yes, go to BiggerPockets.com/events. Look there, if there is an event in your area, go to it. If there is not an event in your area or it is lame, start your own. Like be the hub.
Collin: Yes. A couple of things I did not touch on, the other meetups in town do charge. I did not want to start one and charge. It was just I just wanted to network with other people and what I found is that people want to just start speaking at these meetups whether it is promoting their business or just giving back, being that center person. They had put a presentation together, they were working on their business, say come and present for half hour, 45 minutes. That really helped the following as well. As far as structure, it is typically an hour of networking, no more than an hour of presentation and slash questions and then networking for the rest of the night. We have email groups and we post on BiggerPockets and all that. But yes, it has been a lot of word of mouth.
Also, I was able to find a buddy who was part owner of a bar so I was able to use their space rather than paying the $250 to $500 bucks. I said, hey, I am going to bring these many people. Sure enough, I did and it became one of their biggest, largest nights that they would have, just from the group. They were happy to accommodate us so that we did not have to pay them anything so that we could still keep the event for free.
David: I know you have got a lot of deals out of your meetup, right, Collin? Can you give us some idea of what do you look for in a deal? What is your quick analysis that makes you say, hey, this is something I might want to look into?
Collin: Yes, the location of the property is paramount. Do not invest in D areas, higher crime, higher issue areas. Specifically, I am looking in B, B-, C+ areas. Typically more on the B areas and I am looking for properties that are probably more in C the sea level as far as condition that I know that I can bring up. Also, I want them to be, they do not have to be, but typically this is where you find the good deal grossly mismanaged, rents way below. I like to see that I am going to be able to at least hopefully BRRRR out of the property, buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. Basically, go through that process to pull my cash back out and that it is still going to cash flow after that I do refinance it.
David: Now, you do the BRRRR method with money though, you do not use cash. You go in with financing, you buy it with a down payment and then you refinance after, is that correct?
Collin: That is correct.
David: Tell us how you are able to add enough value through a property that used financing to get your cash back out?
Collin: Yes, one of them was super interesting that we just did. It was a fourplex. Trying to think, we purchased it about seven months ago. It was rents were 50% under what they should have been. I went in when we purchased the property, as I said we did use bank financing, we went in and increased the rents. Everybody left, nobody was going to pay the new rents. They had been there for 20 years and were paying half the amount. Super popular area of town. We went in, we did a little bit of repairs, we made the unit is a bit nicer, updated some electrical, some ACs. Got new residents in nearly immediately and were able to pull all of our money back out and in about three and a half months.
David: I love that.
Collin: That is typically what I am doing is using the bank financing though.
David: Are these loans that you are using like typical Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac? I mean if we are doing it in three months, you are probably not getting typical financing or these portfolio lenders?
Collin: These are local gift portfolio commercial lenders. They typically balloon after five years, the total amounts due or you get a re-price and that they are amortized over 20 years. Typically, rates are higher than residential Fannie Freddie, but the speed and the agility and the flexibility of them, it has really allowed me to do a lot of things, like an effective faction.
David: Any tips for finding lenders like that?
Collin: Well, first off, I mean reach out to your network. See if anybody has any recommendations. I really liked the local banks but I think I have talked to probably seven or eight banks total. I think it really is make sure that you are comfortable with them. Also, knowing if somebody else has done business with those individuals. Some bankers will tell you, promise you the world and then kind of in the final hour, the 11th hour they will say, oh sorry, we cannot get this done for you. Your debt to incomes a little out of whack. I think, I mean, just as like finding a partner or anything, it is just really building trust. It is building trust with those individuals.
Brandon: Does it worry you at all? Like having the shorter, the balloon payments? Like if you got to pay this thing off in five years, does that worry you and what do you do to hedge your risk against that?
Collin: Yes, of course it does. I would say it worried me a bit more at first. Most importantly, I try to factor in an additional buffer of both the value add even after I refinanced but also the ability to have rents decreased as well. That I am kind of in that middle range. I am not high end A class, I am not in the D level. I am kind of in that comfortable area where you can get people that may have to move down from A class to move into this property. There is some obviously inherent risk but I try to have enough value into the properties and plus I am not spending the cash flow typically.
I am saving the cashflow whether it is to reinvest and then these properties are continuing to rent and bring in more rental income. Obviously there is a lot of leverage but I always keep a large Cap X on hand for each property just in case a roof goes or when a roof goes, when a furnace goes. But yes, there is obviously some inherent risk and we have kind of at that level in the cycle where everybody is kind of tiptoeing and waiting for when it is going to fall. But for me, if I did not do this, I was going to be doing the same thing for the next 30 years. The risk is there but it is not as bad as sitting behind the desk for the next 30 years, wishing I had done something.
Brandon: Yes. People often will look at real estate investors and say, ‘Is not that risky?’ We look at people with jobs, is not that risky?
Collin: It is like every one of my co-workers I think are like that is so risky. You are jumping in and honestly, I mean the amount of income streams from these properties and everything is just… You see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Brandon: Yes, that is fantastic. I really really really enjoy that story. I love that you started with Rich Dad, Poor Dad like a lot of us do and jumped in and started listening to the podcast. Just did what other people are doing. Hey, DirectMail seems to work. I am going to do that. I am going to try and do it the best I can. Got a bunch of properties built up the system and then you just figure things out on the way. I mean, it is just like the perfect story. Where do you see yourself headed down the future?
Collin: That is kind of a good question. If I look back two years, I would never guess that I would be talking to you guys or have 110 units. That is just not… It is really cool and I think we sometimes underestimate what we can do. What do they say? You underestimate what you can do in five years, overestimate what you can do in a year. But looking to still acquire more but really build up a solid property management company for my portfolio and for my partners. I want to have the best customer service at the level that I do. I want to have the best properties for the best value. I think, especially when you are buying some of these properties from the old landlords, they see cash come in every month, they put it in their pocket and that is kind of it. It is finding a tenant and forgetting about it.
For me, I really want this to be a successful business and a reflection of kind of my 12 years working in different industries and coming to this point. Yes, it is really just building the portfolio, continuing to grow, having it be more systematized. I have hired a few people this year such as a bookkeeper, accountant, she is awesome. Obviously, you probably know better than I do, but paperwork gets awful. That was the first thing I needed to get off my list. But yes, just continuing to build and really getting things systematized and feeling better about all of it.
Brandon: It is fantastic. Yes, I mean that there is like different phases in people’s investing, right? At the beginning, you are just like acquire what you can, build your portfolio, gets some stuff, quit your job, and then it is like okay now I have got to manage all this. My wife and I went through the same thing. Now, we got to systematize this. Let us hire some people, let us make this a well-run business. The cool thing about property management, you know that you are managing these properties and you said you want to be the best customer service, the bar is really low. Like it is really low, right? It is like a contractor that if you answer your phone, you are in the top 10%. Likewise with a property manager, if you answer your phone with a smile, you are in the top 10%. Instead of like what do you want?
Brandon: The bar is low.
David: That is like Quick Tip. Look for something in life to be good at where the bar is super low. I love that because it is. I mean I think that is why I have done so good as a realtor to be honest with the first two years. But that is it man, I am like the cleanest shirt in the dirty laundry. It is not hard to be really good. But to Brandon’s point about how like you start off one way and it becomes something else, that is true for all business, right? We really see it in real estate investing and I think that investors get discouraged because they think like how could I ever do what that guy is doing? But if you are just thinking about a human body, how it starts as like an embryo and then it slowly becomes more complex until it becomes a fully developed human being that then continues to grow and get bigger, that is how businesses are. It starts with one cell that is doing everything and its very first split into two cells would be like your first partnership, you hire out some stuff and then each of those cell splits into two more.
With every one of those splits, each cell becomes more specified and defined and highly trained in one little area and eventually it splits off into so many pieces that you are only doing that part that you really like and enjoy doing and that is where you get a guy like Collin who is like happy about real estate investing and they are not frustrated and worked up. Brandon, like you said, we have had to really systematize and make it a business. Well, you kind of turned into a human being as opposed to just one big messy thing in the beginning. Be encouraged, it will start off like rough but with every step of growth, right, you get out of a little more of the stuff you dislike and you get better at the stuff you do and eventually you get this really cool complex machine and it all works together and you are in Hawaii, like Brandon, hanging out and getting a tan and showing off your blue eyes that everybody likes about you.
Brandon: I do not tan.
Collin: Or you are doing property management in Omaha where there is about two to three…
David: Then you become a snow angel like Collin.
Collin: Looking to get to Hawaii. You bring us a good point but definitely, and maybe all smiles about it, but it is a ton of sacrifice and really fun. I think what you said, finding where the bar is low because that is where nobody wants to go. Nobody wants to be a property manager. Everybody here, I want to invest passively. They think of real estate as an event, not a process. They are going to buy 10 properties, it is going to cash flow $250 bucks a month, they are going to have $250 but there is a lot of processes to it. Kind of what you said, the whole analogy with the embryo and cells of it is ever evolving, it does not stop. That is really good point.
Brandon: Cool. Hey, let us shift gears and dive a little deeper into your life with the Deal Deep Dive. Alright, you guys hear me talk about SimpliSafe a lot but do not take it just from me. Investors are singing their praises in the BiggerPockets forums. Jim, a contractor from Pittsburgh, says he secures his vacant properties using SimpliSafe. He likes how he can set it up at one property then easily take it down and move it to the next and for 24/7 professional monitoring, you pay just $15 bucks a month. Try SimpliSafe today. It feels good to fear less about your property. Plus, there is a 60 day risk free trial and free shipping free returns if you are not 100% satisfied. You got nothing to lose. Visit SimpliSafe.com/pockets today so they know that we sent you. That is SimpliSafe.com/pockets. Save today.
Alright, let us get into the deal deep dive. This is the part of the show where we dive deep into one particular deal that you have done. Let us do that today. Number one, we will do that with David. Alright, number one, what kind of property are we talking about today?
Collin: I am going to continue with the Ds, duplex.
Brandon: I like it, man.
Collin: Alright. David, how did you find it?
Brandon: David, you just ruined a perfectly good opportunity. How did you discover it?
Collin: Oh, man.
Brandon: Direct mail, okay.
Brandon: This is really good. How many dollars was it?
Collin: A $100,000.
David: How did you drive the seller to give it to you?
Collin: This was about six or seven back and forth phone calls. This was an owner occupied duplex. The guy owned it for 20 years. Basically, he said he was not in a hurry but he was going to sell it to me at a good price. I kept calling him every weekend when I said I would. Went and met him at his doorstep and yes, we signed a contract right then.
Brandon: Okay, that is awesome. Alright, now this is going off the rails. How did you develop funding?
Collin: I have got nothing. This is a bank finance deal, 20% down.
David: Was that your deposit?
Collin: Yes, the $20,000 was the deposit going to the duplex.
Brandon: That was your down payment.
David: Even better. Good job, Brandon. That is why you are the host and I am the co-host. What did you do with it?
Collin: Basically, I had to turn all the units. One of the tenants, the owner who occupied it left right away. The other side was trashed, people have lived there for 20 years. They are paying $500 a month in rent for four bed, one bath. Went in, rehab that, put about $20,000 total throughout the process. This is also a real Quick Tip. When somebody shows up that wants to move into your properties, has cash and is ready to move in that day, run because those were the first tenants I took. About six months later, I think, thankfully I signed a six month lease and numerous cop calls, drug overdoses, they were out of there. I was about to sell that property for $140,000 and just be done with real estate investing. Anyways, I kept with it. I have got great residents in there and actually just refinanced it and then appraised at $205,000. I was able to pull out $66,000.
David: That is amazing.
Brandon: That is a nice deal there. Alright, David wants me to ask you what was the disposition but we already know that now. I am just going to end it with David, I am stealing yours David, what lesson did you discover from this deal?
Brandon: We are never doing this again.
Collin: That is terrible. Do not give up. I guess you can make a lot of mistakes in real estate, but do not give up. If I would have given up, that could have been the end. I could have just thrown it all, thrown in my bag of keys and just quit. But just keep working towards it and learn from your mistakes. I make mistakes every single day, every single day, and sometimes I make ten mistakes, ask My wife. I would probably make more than that but really just stick with it and there is a silver lining but it is just not easy. It does take work but you can also make some mistakes in real estate and I have found and I think you say this, Brandon, that real estate is forgiving.
Collin: As long as you buy, right?
Brandon: As long as you buy right. But even if you do not… Like I bought bad deals but they end up over time, if you hold them long enough, they ended up okay. It is forgiven. I mean I am not saying go buy bad deals but it is forgiving. The whole thing is long enough, you are going to be probably okay over time. Well, that was definitely a delight Deal Deep Dive. Alright, well, that was the Deal Deep Dive of the day, David. A question for you though before we move on, how is tax season going for you buddy?
David: Tax season?
Brandon: Look, tax season is here. We got to do it. My least favorite time of the entire year is tax season. I just absolutely just despise it. There was a huge tax reform this past year and there is a lot of changes, a lot of good changes especially for real estate investors. The question is are you, David, getting all your deductions you should? Are you optimizing for the new tax laws? Are you doing it? Well, listen here, David. Right now, I am looking at the ultimate rental property tax guide from our sponsor Stessa and I know that they are a sponsor on the show but like I legitimately think this guide is amazing. This might be the coolest thing I have seen in a long time about like taxes. It is like here is how you can deduct travel expenses and here is how to pick the right entities. Should you have an LLC?
Here is what capital improvements are versus repairs and here is how depreciation can help you. I know those are big words, but listen guys, understanding what those concepts are can make you millions of dollars or save you millions of dollars over your career, right? Get this guide, it is totally free. Besides the fact that Stessa is just a really, really awesome tool that you can track, manage, communicate your performance of your real estate investments. It is going to save you a bunch of time, all that cool stuff, right? But just go get the tax guide right now. Go over to stessa.com/biggerreturns. Again, stessa.com/biggerreturns. Stessa.com/biggerreturns and check out this amazing ultimate rental property tax guide. You are going to do it, David? Did I convinced you?
David: Oh, why would I not do it? I mean that is going to pay for itself many times over.
Brandon: There you go. It should if it is free. Alright, with that, let us get to the next segment of the show. This is the Fire Round.
It is time for the Fire Round.
Brandon: Alright, let us get to today’s Fire Round. These questions come directly out of the BiggerPockets forums and we are going to fire them at you right now, Collin. Are you prepared for this?
Collin: Hope so.
Brandon: Alright, number one from the forums. ‘I want to purchase my first rental property. I know what city I want to invest in but I want to narrow it down to a neighborhood. What kind of information should I look for when choosing a neighborhood?’
Collin: I guess I would ask if they have been to the city and the area that they want to go to. You know you want to look up crime stats, you want to pull up Zillow and look at average rents. You want to see if properties are selling, are they single family homes that you are looking at or are they multifamily properties? Call some property management companies, call some agents, but for me especially if it is your first property, I would probably want to fly out there and see the neighborhood and judge for myself.
David: Alright, next question. Joe from Kansas City. He says, ‘I am considering starting a property management company. What are the important things I should know? Also, how do I find investors who need property managers to use as clients?’
Collin: I guess I am not sure if he is looking to do it as a third party because mine is for properties in which I own. There is incredible demand for good property managers so it should be pretty easy to find somebody that is looking for a property manager. You just want to have some good systems in place. It also helps if you understand the investment aspect because you are going to be working with investors. Read as much as you can, get yourself into the investing community and if you have it maybe go work for a property management company for just a little bit. Shadow and see what their systems are and then see how you can improve it because likely you can.
Brandon: Yes, that is a great suggestion. I mean, why reinvent the wheel when a six month investment and getting paid could maybe… six months to a year getting paid to learn somebody else’s system. Yes, that is cool.
David: Is not that how Ryan Murdoch got started? Become an assassin?
Brandon: Yes, pretty much. Yes, Ryan Murdoch started with a… I mean he started buying his own properties then he became a property manager of his own deals. Then he started on the property managing company and then he ended up becoming working for another property management company . Now, he is a BiggerPockets… Yes, he is actually a, for those who do not know, Ryan Murdoch is now the newest BiggerPockets team member. Ryan, you all heard him before, he has been on the podcast.
Collin: Congrats, Ryan.
Brandon: Yes, Ryan is now…
David: He is like your old puzzle basically is what he is.
Brandon: Yes, we call…
David: You are talking Kingpin and he is like your goon.
Brandon: We like mercenary better. It is like…
Brandon: Murdochenary. You all are going to probably hear from Ryan in the future actually because Ryan is going to start interacting, especially with our pro members. If you are BiggerPockets pro member, you will probably hear a lot from Ryan. He is going be involved and having conversations with pros, finding out ways to help pros even better. Hey, by the way, we are also hiring for another role, a couple of roles at BiggerPockets right now. I think I mentioned it during the Quick Tip, but if not, I do not remember what today’s Quick Tip was but basically we are hiring for a couple of roles in the marketing/pro teams. If that is you, go to BiggerPockets.com/jobs. Alright, number three of the fire round. ‘I am currently looking to purchase my first rental and my agent sent me a list of tenant occupied homes for sale. I am wondering what people think about tenant unoccupied homes. Would it be smart for a newbie to buy one or should I only buy a vacant one?
Collin: Yes and no. I mean what I always ask if I am buying a property that has a current tenant in it is how long is the lease? If the lease is two years and you walk into the property and they are paying half of what they should be and the property is trashed, you probably want to pass on that because it is going to be hard to recover those costs in those first two years. But yes, I mean, I have some great inherited tenants. You know that I have gone in, I have slightly increased their rent, they have been on month to month and it is worked out well. It is very situational.
David: Alright. Let us jump into the next segment of our show. The Famous Four. But before we do, let us hear from Mindy about who is going to be on the BiggerPockets podcast on Monday.
Mindy: Hey, Brandon. Hi, David. On Monday’s episode of the BiggerPockets Money podcast, Scott and I talked to Reshawn and Rob, a couple from Texas who nine years ago got married and discovered the Dave Ramsey book, The Total Money Makeover. They implemented a modified version of Dave’s baby steps program and paid off $20,000 in student loans, both cars and their $300,000 mortgage. But what is so interesting about their story is that it is not unique. It is totally repeatable for just about anyone if they adhere to the basic principles of spend less, save more, and invest wisely. Okay, thanks guys. Now, it is time for the Famous Four.
Brandon: Alright. Thank you, Mindy, as always. Hey, you all want to do something kind of cool? Go leave a raving review for Mindy’s show, from Mindy and Scott’s show, The Money Podcasts. They need some love. I mean they are really good. They are actually growing faster than we grew, the BiggerPockets podcast, but they could always use some love over on the ratings and review sites. Check them out, rate and review them. Let them know you love them. Let us get to the Famous Four. Number one, Collin, what is your favorite real estate related book?
Collin: Dave Lindahl’s Multifamily Millionaire.
David: A very good one.
Brandon: I liked that book.
David: His book Emerging Market is not bad either. Next question, what is your favorite business book?
Collin: This one, I just read and I have re-read it twice. It is Shoe Dog by Phil Knight. It is phenomenal.
David: Brandon, have you heard that yet?
Brandon: I am three quarters way through the Audible. It is good, it is long but I have not finished it, yes. But you know what I love about that book? I think that show because I am listening to it, what I love about it is it shows like what entrepreneurship really takes, right? Like there is like this dream of entrepreneurship and this applies to a real estate or anything. Like at the end of the day, like Phil Knight, that is his name right? Phil Knight?
Brandon: I was thinking Phil Collins because your name is Collin. Anyway, okay, like the guy was obsessed. Like he was obsessed and everything he did is push push push push push for years to build up Nike. It is kind of like almost every successful person I have ever known has done. Like they get obsessed about their entrepreneurial venture and it is not just post them on Instagram that you are an entrepreneur, Hashtag entrepreneur and suddenly you are, right? Like Brandon Turner and Josh Dorkin with BiggerPockets perhaps?
Brandon: Like Josh and then me later, we obsessed. Obsessed, yes. Anyway, right Collin?
Collin: Yes, sir.
Brandon: We obsessed.
Collin: Yes, absolutely.
David: Own your obsession.
Collin: No, it is super encouraging though when you see all the struggles that he went through like two years and I am two years and I am like, okay, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Yes, I will not ruin how the book ends, but Nike is still around.
Brandon: Right on.
David: Okay, Colin, what are some of your hobbies?
Collin: I like to work out, I do crossfit, love to travel although I have not been traveling new nearly as much as I would like. But yes, we took the kid to Hawaii last year. We got some more, we are going to going to head over to Hong Kong in April. Yes, hang out with the kids. Those guys are demanding. You know Paw Patrol? The Zoo? Those are some of my hobbies.
Brandon: Nice. Yes, those are good hobbies. We watch a lot of what is a show called? Doc McStuffins. That is my hobby these days. It is doc McStuffins, amazing. Anyway, number four, what do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail or never get started?
Collin: I think you have to be willing to sacrifice. If you really want to jump in this, I gave up basically watching TV for two years. I did not catch a football game. My daughter was just born when I started and I can honestly say that I was not around too much for her first year. It was the sacrifice that I had to make to get to where I am. I was able to quit my job a year later.
Collin: But it takes a lot of sacrifice. You have to be willing to make those and it also helps to have a great support partner. Like I could not have done it without my wife. Being able to put up with me constantly on my phone, running around working weekends, 16 hours a day. Surrounding yourself with the right people and be willing to sacrifice.
Brandon: You know, I had a conversation the other day on that note with a buddy of mine. He was saying he has a little kid at home, I mean like a year old and a another one on the way. He wants to build a real estate business, he wants to be a real estate agent. He wants to somebody else work in a full time job. Like I talked to him week after week after week we talked and he has not made any progress at all towards his real estate investing. He said, ‘I feel bad leaving the kid and not being around.’ I am like I get that, I mean I totally do, right? We are in real estate business. But you have a choice, you can sacrifice a year or two and have the next 18 when they are going to remember you. Like I am not saying do not around for your kid. Be around with your kid as much as possible, but I mean you better not be watching. If that is your excuse, you better watch no Netflix at all. You better not even have a phone that you are using for anything other than texting business contacts, right? I mean there is a lot of hours in a week that we are not working.
Collin: Absolutely, absolutely.
Brandon: Yes, drives me a little bit nutty. You can tell like it is just like if you really want something, you will find a way. If not, you will find an excuse, right?
Collin: Everything is possible. Get rid of Facebook on your phone. Get rid of Netflix. If you are a Broncos fan, do not watch the Broncos. Sorry, what do you want more? Ending, what do you want more? Something people do not talk about a lot is like, yes, I want to be there with my kid. I want to be there for other stuff. But if you are there as like a grumpy, unhappy person who is not satisfied with how life is going, no kid wants that right around, right? You would rather have a little bit less time and a happier dad or happier mom then yes, they were at everything and they were irritated the whole time and on their phone trying to, right? Just keep that in mind. Like if you can work really hard and then gives them a really good life and be happy yourself, your kid would much rather have that.
Collin: Yes, if you just keep pushing, I mean now I can take off a random Wednesday and say hey we are going to go do this. We are going to go get breakfast. We are going to go… It is that silver lining at the end of the tunnel. But you got to suffer a little bit in the beginning and make those sacrifices.
David: Rosie is not going mind all these pictures of her three years old playing with uncle David on a beach with a sunset in the background of Hawaii because Brandon hustled where he was at. It is a cool story. It is definitely something people should look forward to because real estate will pay you back for everything that you put into it and a lot of things in life do not. Alright, Collin, final question for me. Tell us where can people find out more about you?
Collin: At BiggerPockets. Definitely message me on there. I am on Facebook, Instagram, kind of, Colin_c_Scwartz. I have a LinkedIn account too but BiggerPockets is great.
Brandon: We will put links to all of that in the show notes. The show notes of course are at biggerpockets.com/show318. If you want to jump in there, they can find links to all your social media and all that good stuff. Of course, they can comment there on the show notes and talk to you and ask questions there as well. Thank you, Collin. This has been fantastic. Unbelievably good, like really like. I love your story, I love where you came from, I love where you are going. Keep it up and you have to come back in the show some time and tell us kind of when you get to the next level how you got there.
Collin: Awesome. Would love it guys, thank you.
Brandon: Alright, thanks. Alright, that was our show with Collin. Thank you very much, Collin and thank you David for being an amazing analogist today here on the show again.
David: Like I used alliteration to call me an amazing analogist. That seemed to be a thing of this show.
Brandon: I know, right? That was kind of a theme in today’s show. It was definitely a delightful show. That was fun. Yes, that is really good.
David: He is just an awesome guy. That dude put together a plan and execute at a very high level. What I love about it is it is not something that requires an MBA to do. He is like I am going to send out some mailers and I am going to do some meetups and I am just going to network and be a fun nice guy that everybody likes and he just was like, Oh, I happened to stumble my way to a 110 units in two years. I mean, that is like such a cool story that anybody can follow.
Brandon: It is so true. So good, so awesome. Alright, you all, thank you for listening to the show today. If you are enjoying the show, make sure as always, leave us a rating review if you have not yet on iTunes. I know we have like 4,000 or 5,000 but there is like a quarter million people who listen to the show. That means there is a lot of people who have not yet done that. I am looking at you, yes you, driving in your car? Yes, I see you. Yes, right there. When you get home today, leave me and rate and review, I appreciate it. Thank you.
David: Please do. If you guys liked this kind of stuff, I started putting Instagram stories of me in my car much like what you are doing, thoughts that I had been having.
If you guys want to hear more of that type of stuff, it is kind of like an extension of what we talked about today, a lot of it. Follow me at DavidGreene24, follow Brandon at BeardyBrandon. Get more of the stuff that you love because we love these stuff. Go apply to work at BiggerPockets. That is something that you are thinking about. You should absolutely do it. You do not want to look back in 10 years and say, why did not I?
David: That being said, this is David Greene for Brandon “Bearded Blue Eyes” Turner, signing off.
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